Welcome to M3’s first interactive post! I am glad you came to join in the discussion.
Tonight, we are going to discuss in further detail the marriage vows and our ideas of what love really is between Mates.
I take thee...
Just to catch you up, here are the basics for this discussion:
- Marriage is a contract.
- Except for Buddhist vows, all traditional vows use love as a verb.
- Only religious ceremonies refer directly to fidelity in the vows.
- English does not do justice to the word love as a verb or a noun as it relates to marriage.
Questions at hand:
- What does love between spouses really mean?
- Is it adequately represented in the wedding vows discussed?
- Would your Mate agree to your definition?
- Have you ever asked?
- If so, what answer did you get?
- How does the lack of specificity bear on those who feel marriages fail?
How This Works
You talk. I talk.
There will be a number of comments go live within moments of this post. There will be a comment for each of the above questions, with some commentary added. When you get to the end of this, likely the comments will have all had time to post. Please reply directly to the comment itself. You will find a “reply” button in the lower right hand corner of the comment. Each comment will be its own discussion.
My responses will be directly to your comments, as they normally are.
If you have a question which is not covered by the comments already, comment directly to the post with the Tell Me More box. Please be sure to leave five stars if you are a participant in (or gain any insight from) tonight’s discussion.
If you need to read…
…the posts and comments which brought us here:
Know someone who should be tuned into this discussion? Use the +1 and Twitter buttons below with the hashtag #TalkTuesday. Grab them on any of your social media. The more the merrier.
G Devan Smith
/ January 3, 2012What does love between spouses really mean?
Total dedication to the other… past love’s “euphoric” stage.. i.e. the emotion of being IN love rather than love itself.
Is it adequately represented in the wedding vows discussed?
No not really. But then again, it depends on the couple.
Would your Mate agree to your definition?
I’m divorced so… meh.
Have you ever asked?
Oddly enough I had though in the past.
If so, what answer did you get?
To be honest, while I don’t remember the exact wording, I will say I wasn’t exactly thrilled with her response.
How does the lack of specificity bear on those who feel marriages fail?
I think that’s the wrong question. My belief about why marriages fail is too many people move when they have that euphoric emotion of love… and when that wears out–and some people regain their senses– a lot of people feel they made a wrong decision… then just up and leave.
Red
/ January 3, 2012Thank you for the distinction between love and in love…which I often dub “lust”.
I did not ask the wrong question. FTR, I am seeking an answer to the question I asked. I did NOT ask if the lack of specificity was the CAUSE of the marriage’s failure. I asked how the lack of specificity BEARS on the marriage’s failure. IOW, if the commitment is spoken, does the couple take it more seriously?
Red.
G Devan Smith
/ January 3, 2012but it’s not the same as lust…. not always… it leans more to–gah–Puppy love.
I can’t believe I said that…
Red
/ January 3, 2012*Grins* Sticks to the “not always” in self-defense.
That “puppy love” feeling does not always go completely away. I think holding onto it makes for a longer lasting love and one which can endure a bit more. It does not have to be transient, unless you allow “life” to winnow it away.
G Devan Smith
/ January 3, 2012as for the last question… no, unfortunately. it comes down to action behind the vows. because anybody can say anything…even at a wedding…
Red
/ January 3, 2012Thank you. Words are so cheap they have been declared free. One would think a wedding would be the place where we want our words to truly be indicative of what our actions will be.
Androgoth
/ January 3, 2012Talk Tuesday is well into my Wednesday already so I will just add a brief idea of what I was thinking on this one, of course I will more than likely be miles off the base line with my thoughts but here goes…
One cannot set rules or make any commitments based on another person’s ideals, if someone truly loves someone then what is the need of a piece of paper within a marriage if it means nothing to them but just words upon a document…
The real sense of love is in the heart and mind and no matter what foundations are laid down for the marriage ceremony by law, it can only be successful for them personally while concerning their wedding vows if the two that are getting married love each other for whom they are, there can be no misunderstandings later, I mean if the two that are in love and wish to be married know one another and respect each other with sincerity and a true genuineness, there can be no errors, otherwise what is the point in them getting married in the first place?
I will call back on the morrow / later today and see what differing comments and thoughts have been added here and good luck with this posting Red, I think that your first interactive posting will be a big success 🙂
Have a wonderful evening Red 🙂
Androgoth XXx
Red
/ January 3, 2012I agree about the words on the document, but am wondering about the words (vows) exchanged. From the answers today, the vows are recited (as in rote repetition) rather than avowed. (The absolute source of this discussion).
Thank you for adding sincerity to the list. Additionally, you have identified the solution to this quiz.
Rest well, my friend. Anon,
Red.
Androgoth
/ January 3, 2012I think that whether the words are recited or declared is of the same precedent, as it is declaring one’s true love for another is it not? Anyone that takes those vows should only do so if they are truthfully wishing to be with their loved one forever, otherwise the vows that are taken are farcical and wrong…
Hey it is almost 02:30 here red and I just couldn’t leave without calling back to see what you replied. the curiosity of a vampire perhaps? 🙂
I will be out of here next Red
and having a nice cup of coffee 🙂
Have fun tonight 🙂
Androgoth XXx
Red
/ January 3, 2012Very good question, my vampiric friend. I am, all whilst enjoying an inky cup of coffee as well.
See you again on my morrow.
Red.
Androgoth
/ January 3, 2012Good Night Red 🙂
I have enjoyed this posting…
Androgoth XXx
prenin
/ January 3, 2012Thanks Red – now all I have to do is wait for him to either get his crap together or end up on the street.
Either way it is now up to Doug… 🙂
Love and hugs!
Prenin.
Red
/ January 3, 2012And the short form: Who cares either way? Good on you, Pren! {HUGZ} Red.
ansuyo
/ January 3, 2012What I mean by that is what the Bible says about marriage. I’m sure I didn’t say it well, and can’t now either – anyone else want to give it a try?
Anyway, wanted to add that ‘love’ changes over time. It starts out with an emphasis on passion and happy ever after and turns into something that is comfortable (and hopefully still passionate). It involves compassion, compromise, fair fighting, good listening skills, looking beyond the small things (picking your battles), investing in the relationship on a regular basis (as opposed to letting life get in the way), and so much more.
Red
/ January 3, 2012I will wait on someone else to chime in Biblically. (Although, I already know.)
In your explanation of love changing, I gather you are equating love and marriage. Devan spoke of the difference between being “in love” and “love”. I think, though, you are speaking of two different things.
ansuyo
/ January 3, 2012Probably, but you were talking about vows, right? I’m not sure making them more specific would make a difference. I love the traditional vows, but also like when people add a little something from the heart. “In love” is fleeting. Real love is something else entirely and comes with going through things together….
Red
/ January 3, 2012Interesting. Very, very interesting.
Yes, we are specifically talking about the vows and how they relate to the definition of love in marriage. You say the “in love” is fleeting, so I take the “real love” to mean the love in marriage, as in the one which must endure the slings and arrows. By the last part of your statement, I am guessing you see love in marriage as something which evolves over time.
Androgoth
/ January 3, 2012One does not have to go through things together in order to know real love, and marriages that are traditional or otherwise are basically the same, when one offers those words in marriage, whether recited or declared it is the same thing and one should not enter into marriage in the first place if one does not believe those words…
Now I am not saying that you don’t believe in them I am merely offering a comment based entirely on your latter statement that real love is only realised over time and with going through things together, which I don’t agree on, but of course these are only our personal thoughts my friend…
Androgoth
awarewriter
/ January 3, 2012Love is like a blossom, flourishing when watered with the actions of love, withering when the waters of action are withheld.
John
Red
/ January 3, 2012As true as it is poetic, John.
And what of you to say of the import of the words at the wedding?
Red.
awarewriter
/ January 3, 2012Oh the words are important if they are well meant, but I think mere words are symbolic. I believe people communicate on a higher level and show that communication with their actions. Maybe it’s a Zen kind of thing that can’t be named or framed in words.
John
Red
/ January 3, 2012I see that as a step not often taken, my friend. The level of communication of which you speak is garnered only in knowledge of Mate or a true alignment of hearts. Yes, very Zen, but also poignantly accurate.
I like your take on the symbolic nature of the words. Hmm.
Red.
LOL Shithead
/ January 3, 2012You expect a right and just comment from me?? LOL. The first marriage was a disaster. too young. Neither of us knew what to expect from one another. No real time to get to know and understand one another. Children possibly too soon. Second Marriage: well there were two people standing at the alter and when it was asked if there was anyone present that thinks these two people should not be married? We both raised our index fingers and got a nasty look from the priest. Who by the way had waived pre-marital counseling due to the fact we were quite compatible.. Marriage is a step that shouldn’t be taken lightly especially if it is to remain monogamous. Communication, commitment, devotion, respect are part of the package. To say it is a 50/50 proposition is not always so.. It is a give and take. Whoever is the strongest at the time may have to do the sacrificing for the love of their partner. Love well it is a many splendored thing …….
Red
/ January 3, 2012Well, yes, ma cherie, I did! And right well I got one, too.
I think too many ppl buy into that entire 50/50 jazz. Very astute of you to add communication to the mix. Heretofore, it was missing from the list.
And I would have smacked the priest…or said “I don’t”, but I am just like that…but you know that 😉
Glad to see you, ma cherie!
Red.
LOL Shithead
/ January 3, 2012The Priest knew it was a solid relationship that had been consumated already. Besides the Best man and Matron of honor gave us elbow punches to the ribs <3
Red
/ January 3, 2012Wow! Glad you have better friends now… <3 *Giggles* You are the perfect one to ask this…do you think there are still rational adults who can talk about this sort of thing in terms the other understands to reach a middle ground on which a true “love marriage” can be built?
LOL Shithead
/ January 3, 2012ROFLMAO.. I sure as hell hope so.. If not I’m screwed.. Oh wait No I’m not.. <3 If you can't commit in some way the it is not to be…
Red
/ January 3, 2012I knew you would know. And I also did not think I was the only one to think so. <3 Thank you, Cherie. Red.
Marc Phillippe Babineau
/ January 4, 2012Adoration. If the love in your life is your first thought the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night. then marriage is a possible success story in the making. If “I love you” is first uttered in any setting other than in the bedroom (or any other site for a sexual liaison) then marriage may stand a chance at success.
Red
/ January 4, 2012Very good observation. Love must permeate all.