Thank you for stopping by tonight. Over the last couple days we have been discussing the paradigm shift when it comes to war. Make no mistake, this is not solely an American issue, although some of the responses have tailored portions of tonight’s discussion as American.

Talk Tuesday


The pertinent posts (which will all open in other tabs) are:

I am only going to pull a few points out for background:

  • The treatment of veterans has gone from venerated to abhorred to something in between.
  • The generation of the protesters of wars in the 1950-1960s are the same generation who is currently legislating war efforts around the globe.
  • The economical ethic of the world has changed from The Silent Generation to The Baby Busters. All generations have embraced the economic benefit of war to some degree.


Some of the comments which lead us here include:

From Val: I think it was shortly after that I chained myself to the first fence in protest of the Vietnam War, I have been protesting every war since then. We had it wrong back then, blaming the young men who served rather than the old men who sent them to hell. I think we understand better now at least who and what is behind the curtain. Certainly it doesn’t change the fundamental suction, but perhaps it changes our response, our humanity, our compassion and our empathy for those who give and lose so much.


From Ted: Will we ever be out of the war business? History tells us no. When we weaken our military we get attacked… Our leaders need to think long and hard before sending our brave men and women into battle. Once they make the decision to commit troops they need to give them the objective and get out of the way… The other thing that should not happen is politicians using a conflict for personal gain. How many members of congress voted to go into Iraq and Afghanistan after 9-11, only later to use the conflict for some political gain. The senators and congressman that did these things should be ashamed and there constituents should remove them from office.

From Angie: I think the elders saw the value of war. It was consequence after drawing a line in the sand and having others cross it. It wasn’t something anyone wanted, but they understood why it sometimes needed to happen.

From John: I do think change and the rat race were fueled by the illusion of wealth rather than actual wealth. Perhaps the acceptance of war was part of that illusion, an unwillingness to look behind the curtain, a willingness to be led, a forgetting to ask why.

From Andro: I guess that greed is one of the main factors and unfortunately the greedy are getting even greedier, perhaps one day the smaller voices will be heard and some common sense will prevail but when?

From Bear: Unfortunately, war is a big business and the people who run our country, and have run our country in the past, got a share of the pie, whether it was oil, gold or property. To pin it down, we let our government start confrontations in the name of freedom/oil. If we do not win the conflict, then we are told we will run out of oil… Then we might have to stay home with the kids.

From Prenin: Trouble is that we have been taught that we are the good guys and ‘they’ are the bad guys, while ‘they’ are willing to die to defeat ‘us’ who are seen as the Great Satan, or the supreme bad guys.

Gathered around the news.

From Rachael: The prior generation was raised on the ideals of WWII -when our country was in real physical danger and so many family members in Europe were fighting for their lives every day. Come the late 1950′s and the 1960′s Washington couldn’t get their heads around the fact that Vietnam was something utterly different. A power struggle. And it was all beamed live and in color to our television each night.

Let’s Talk

We have identified some of the attitudes which keep us as a warring people. What do you think? Please answer all three questions. Feel free to join any comment thread. Talk to each other!

  1. If the universal goal was one which would benefit all humanity, what would it take for all nations to band together? (Example: Clean water supply worldwide)
  2. Would the adoption of a world economy solve the issue of greed and national conflict?
  3. What have you done personally to change the prevailing attitude of war? (Consider actions involving your children, colleagues, friends and family.)

(c) Ann Marie Dwyer 2012
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  1. 1. I don’t think this is possible save an extraterrestrial threat.

    2. A world economy wouldn’t change a thing. Look at the European Union for an example. Wars almost always involve one side coveting the resources of another.

    3. Nothing — I have no power to change anything outside of my own self. If everyone would look inside to their true inner being, conflict would stop of it’s own accord.


    • Do you believe you have had no influence over your daughters?

      • Ah, but your question said change. Influence is quite a different matter. I’ll stick with having no power to change others but of course I can influence their attitudes by example. Example is a power I do have.


  2. I have just been looking at the Twin Towers picture and even now, and knowing what took place on that most sickening day, it all seems so surreal… I remember watching that on News 24 and the footage of those jets and the aftermath is something that all of us will remember forevermore, it must have been sheer hell at ground zero…

    I know that we are not exactly talking about 9 / 11 but it does have a bearing on this debate, the terrorism that surrounds our world and the catastrophic events that chill us to the bone is something that needs to be eradicated forever…

    If we as a world populous are to be united then this kind of terror needs to be purged, indeed the whole spectrum of confrontation, the hatred that fuels terrorism and the volatile intermediary of war that fractures and destabilises our world needs to be eliminated for all time, but how does one achieve these goals?

    I guess that it won’t be easy, but we definitely need to build upon these crucial factors, and sooner rather than later…


    • How do we raise the next generation to forego the violent enforcement of their beliefs?

      • Ahhhh the 54,000 dollar question, now if I had the answer to that one then perhaps I should be running for President 🙂

        Have a great day today Red 🙂

        Androgoth XXx

  3. Perhaps the strike has stopped this one? 🙁
    Never mind Red there is always the morrow…

    Have a wicked Wednesday 🙂

    Androgoth XXx

    • Later does the trick. It appears the broadcast of this across the SM spectrum was less than stellar. Some days, automation is awful.


  4. Sorry I missed the discussion 🙁
    1. The problem is that none would agree which thing would benefit all humanity. They would likely want to benefit themselves. I don’t think this will happen.
    2. Adoption of a world economy would not solve any of these issues. While I believe that will happen, I don’t think it will solve anything. As long as there is greed, a thirst for power, people who put others down instead of working together, …..
    3. War? not so much, but I do not tolerate people being disrespectful to our service men and women – veterans to the rawest recruit. When doing my substitute teaching in high school for a few years, the students did not have to stand and say the pledge, but they knew better than to talk and disrupt during it. The same with my kids – it’s called respect. Whether you agree with the war or not, those serving are not to blame. In my world, people tend to respect military personel greatly and go out of their way to thank them. Other than that – probably not much.

  5. How about a curve ball Red. I’ll revise my answer to #1. Abolish all religions (the True Believer variety) that define their superiority by another’s inferiority. I include all ‘isms’ here, not just Religion with a capital R. In other words, banish belief systems that focus on negativity and denial of others to bolster the believers.

    Of course I don’t mean to banish by edict or any such thing. What I’m saying that until those belief systems are changed (by the practitioners) there’s no common ground.

    We all bleed red and cry salty tears. If everyone would learn to mind their own business and get their house in order first, then we might get somewhere.


    • ~STANDING OVATION~ Embrace humanitarian ideals rather than self-serving ones.

      The joy of it is, when we do just that, we have no cause for war. In seeking the things we need as a society, we inherently care for others who need the same things. The teamwork necessary to advance the goals means all benefit.

      Excellent amendment, John.

      • We need true leaders Red, the kind of people who lead by example and empower others, not the power hungry assholes who claim to be leaders. Example is the best, probably the only real teacher. Then again there is no such thing as teaching, only empowering others to learn for themselves.

        I have never understood the will to power. I prefer trust.


        • I think there is much more to be learned in trust than in reverence, coerced or otherwise.


  6. 1. I’m afraid that the only way to get humanity to band together would be to have an external threat – UFO’s anyone???

    2.No. There will always be those who will milk the system for their own benefit…

    3. Nothing except complain! 🙂

    God Bless!


    • 1. You are not the only one who thinks this.

      2. I agree.

      3. Sometimes that is enough!


  7. bear

     /  January 18, 2012

    Every comment has validity, War will always be around no matter what.

    The Vietnam War had been going on for years, and we had sent advisors in as early as 1954 to oversee their military. The war was over what? Property. And we withdrew and we all know the rest of the story.

    But what changed THE MEDIA! They were allowed into war and to report everything that was given to them by the military. Jaded? You bet! But it backfired, when people began to see and feel and make their own decisions about what was really going on. The biggest question: Why were we there? What was our reasoning? And when this was questioned all hell broke loose. The media is to blame for a lot of biased information. They are influenced by what are government wants us to think.

    Example: If you tell someone they look sick long enough, they will eventually be sick. We do things because we are told by the government we have to. This is the right thing to do. And WE fall for it every time!

    • The propaganda of war is the worst. Makes me wonder if we as a race have become so lazy as to need to be spoon fed information. What fosters that trust, in light of the known falsehoods perpetuated?

      • Bear

         /  January 18, 2012

        Red, we don’t need to be, we choose to be. I do believe it started with my generation with the exception of my parents of course.

        I was taught to be self-sufficient, fix my own car, plumbing, electrical, don’t rely on anyone for anything! But the government has chosen to make sure we don’t hurt ourselves by passing ignorant laws or ordinances. You asked what fosters that trust it goes back to we are lazy. Or we want to believe what we are being told, but we just keep falling for the same sack of lies.

        • What an utterly revolting thought. Not you being self-sufficient, but that as a society we are so lazy as to find it easier to be nannied and treated like mushrooms. *Growls* Red.

  8. Thought provoking…
    Thanks for the ideas

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